As a body of believers we are unified together in Messiah. Certainly, the Catholic Church sees unity as very important and they argue that all the different denominations is proof that there needs to be a central authority to determine what is the true interpretation of Scripture, and of course, they claim that G-d has given them (the Catholic Church) that authority and other believers should become unified with them. In some ways it is a good argument for all the division that we see in the Protestant Christian world (as well as in the Messianic world), seems to show an every man for themselves type of attitude.
To me it seems that differences are OK, that what might be good and pleasing for me to do, might be bad and displeasing for the next person to do. It also seems that we are all at different places in our walk, and thus I might have been revealed some truth that the next person does not have, but at the same time that person might have some truth that I have failed to see at this point. That being the case, I think believers should discuss our differences among ourselves with respect and honor to each other as brothers and sisters in Messiah.
I think taking an argument that is between believers into the public square we do a disservice to G-d. I try and encourage each group to stick to their guns, but always with that soft teachable spirit, and always with a respectful attitude to the other viewpoint, no matter how foolish it may seem. To me, G-d is the judge and He is the one that works upon our hearts. If G-d puts it upon me to speak out about a certain issue, I should do so, but do so in a manner that does not call the other viewpoint out as in any way inferior, or indicate that the one who holds the other viewpoint is somehow either a weak believer or possibly not a real believer.
I recall, years ago as a young believer, after joining the Navy and just after boot camp, getting stationed at the Naval Air Station in Millington, Tennessee for more schooling. Being young and fresh out of boot camp, most of the sailors (and Marines) stationed there did not have a car, so to go off base and into town, one either took a cab or just walked into town. As many walked, it became an opportunity for some from the local churches to sit out there, especially on the weekend and speak to the sailors as they passed about G-d and share the Good News. When I would walk past these well menaing gentlemen, they would start to show me Scriptures and I would tell them that I am a believer (this was well before I ever heard of Messianic Judaism) and that I was born again, etc. However no matter how much I tried to tell them that I was one of them and on their side, it seems like I was not a believer until they saw me pray and become a believer. Possibly this was because sailors learned to lie and say that to get away and so they decided it best to keep going with their words and Scripture regardless of the response, or maybe it was because they felt that they had a certainly exclusivity to what a believer is and not just anyone could claim that, but would have to pass a test of sorts to be let pass as a believer. Regardless, I found this to be offensive and would avoid those people, even though it would be wonderful to have fellow believers to share with as I passed by. Their nonacceptance of me meant all of us missed a chance for a great blessing and we certainly did not have any unity.
So, very often brothers end up hurting each other, and do so for really not very good reasons. Are there times when a disagreement can lead to separation? Certainly, but that does not mean that there has to be a lack of unity. Although I have little to do with certain groups of believers because their style is not mine own, and I disagree pretty strongly with some things they do, I should not feel the need to always bad mouth them, especially in front of non-believers. I think it appropriate to point out differences, but I think it wise to keep the discussion to a minimum.
I can go on about how I disagree with certain movements or certain theologies but at the end of the day, those people are believers as well and one day we will be together to discuss (and most likely laugh) about our differences. To me, it seems to be a good and Godly thing to remain like family, even if it is more like a distant relative then a close relative.
With all this in mind there was an interesting post and some comments that followed on the Jews for Jesus blog. Certainly Jews for Jesus is a group that is no stranger to being controversial, however Chad expressed the pain that he feels when other Messianic groups write to the local paper and complain about Jews for Jesus. I think for many Messianic Jews some of the problem might come from the way Jews for Jesus does things, and like I said that is fine and I do not think they expect every Messianic Jew to follow there ways to the letter. I also think some issues come up for people because if you tell someone that you are Messianic, they naturally associate that with Jews for Jesus, and then, for me I explain that not all Messianic Jews are Jews for Jesus. It is one group that is part of the movement, but not the movement itself. I think some don’t like that they have to explain this and possible build up some resentment. I guess that is a sign of the success of Jews for Jesus, it has become kind of like the Band-Aid or Q-Tips, brand names that define the entire market, if I can put it in marketing terms.
All in all I think we should all pray on how we can better be unified. Do we need one authority, yes and that is G-d, but even one church is extremely fractured so the bigger point is how to remain unified even with our differences, and I think only through G-d can we achieve that lofty goal.
B”H
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6 responses so far ↓
1 Tom Albrecht // Aug 16, 2007 at 9:25 am
I must admit that I have a hard time hearing a call for “unity” from one who subscribes to the basic tenets of Messianic Judaism. I still get the sense in reading about and interacting with adherents of Messianic Judaism (as opposed to actual Messianic Jews, who seem few and far between), that division along racial lines is a distinctive that will not go away. Part of this I think springs from the MJs false perception that “gentile Christians” (an offensive term in itself) want to force Jews to behave like “pagans” (which is the common synonym for “gentiles”). And so to counteract this they get a bunch of “gentiles” together and teach them to act like “Jews”.
The unfortunate end result is a reinterpretation of Pauls claim that in Christs church “there is neither Jew nor Greek”, and the acceptance and normalizing of racially based religious differences.
2 B Z // Aug 16, 2007 at 9:51 am
Can you be more specific as to what you are reading about Messianic Judaism? Are there certain books or websites? I would love to know, especially to be prepared to respond to the problems you see with unity with Jewish believers.
Also, what is your suggestion here? It seems that you are trying to say that non-Jewish Christians (is that a more acceptable term?) do not want to take away the culture and heritage of Jewish believers, and that Messianic Jews are looking to make the church act like Jews. If this is true for some groups, then those groups would be falling into the same trap as some of the Jewish believers of the book of Acts. It is also a trap that the church equally falls into (see my post about Chapter 5 of Postmissionary Judaism for some of the thoughts of some church fathers about Jewish believers and practices).
Are there some examples of actual Messianic Jews that you can provide? I think I am unsure of what your point is and thus it seems to me to just be a rant with little actual point. If you can clarify it a bit, I would appreciate it.
3 Tom Albrecht // Aug 16, 2007 at 11:37 am
Can you be more specific as to what you are reading about Messianic Judaism? Are there certain books or websites? I would love to know, especially to be prepared to respond to the problems you see with unity with Jewish believers.
Ive been interacting with MJ adherents from UMJC to MJAA and everywhere else — on the Internet for over 10 years (ever heard of alt.messianic). I have encountered a wide variety of beliefs, from the mild/moderate kind (we just like to sing songs in a minor key and keep Passover and called their ministers rabbi) to the hard core types (everyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus ought to keep the entire OT law, from kosher to circumcision as proof that you really love Jesus; if you love me you will keep my commandments). I have found folks who call themselves MJ who observe the Galatian heresy. (I could go back in my archives and show many examples of all these flavors.) Surely you have encountered extremists in your survey of the MJ landscape.
Which brings up the problem I see with MJism; no one is authorized to speak for the movement, there is no systematic theology or creed or confession of what a person is to believe in order to qualify as an MJ. In fact, this lack of systematic approach to Scripture leads to such questionable conclusions that Christian is a gentile term only appropriate for non-Jewish believers.
It think also that oddity that is called Messianic Judaism can be attributed in part to a lack of perspective on Church history and the theology of church fathers, especially the traditional view of the law in Scripture. Ive read where you say things that make me think you have a monolithic view of the Mosaic law; e.g., that the purpose and application of the 10 Commandments is identical with the laws regarding kosher, clothing, sacrifices, etc. The Church has always distinguished what we call the moral law from the ceremonial/civil laws of Israel. The moral is eternally binding on all men in all times, while the ceremonial/civil was only binding on Israel as a distinct nation from all the other nations. Israel lost that distinction with the appearing of Messiah (cf. Matthew 21:43
).
Until MJism comes to grip with that reality, it will continue to miss the significance of much of the NT and be seen as a barrier to real unity among Gods people.
It pains me that the Church has to deal once again with Jew/gentile issues after 2000 years. IMO, we have this new error in large part because folks have not learned from history.
4 B Z // Aug 16, 2007 at 12:08 pm
It seems like you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Can you find extremes in virtually every group, every church, every denomination? Are there extreme Calvinists who do more harm to the theology than actually help it? Does that mean Calvinism is bad or the Presbyterian Church is bad, wrong or needs to be rejected? I would not think so, and in the same way, Messianic Judaism has it’s own problems (read Chad Elliot’s post about the need for maturity in Messianic Judaism).
You seem to be saying that there is one set of correct answers, and of course with God there is, however is there one church that has everything 100% correct? If not, then is there room for diverse opinions (even including the Law). For example I would not have to search for very long to find Christian sites that argue that the Sabbath Law is a moral Law and still in effect and has been officially moved to Sunday (I suspect you would agree with this), and other sites arguing that the entirety of Law has been done away with and Sunday services are nothing more than a tradition. You speak of authority, but who is the authority of worldwide Christians? The Catholic Church would claim themselves as the sole authority, however I am guessing that you do not accept them as the authority for yourself.
So when you make statements like The Church has always distinguished what we call the moral law from the ceremonial/civil laws of Israel, I think you are referring to certain movements within Christianity and not Christianity as a whole. If there is one (or possibly a few denominations) that are 100% correct, then I would have to disagree with that. The church has done well, however I do not think that the church as a whole has gotten there yet.
My point, especially when it comes to unity is that if we can agree on salvation, that we are saved by faith and faith alone in the work of Yeshua in His sacrifice and resurrection, then the other stuff we can agree to disagree on and talk with each other in love, as I think we are doing here.
If your point is that Messianic Judaism has a long way to go and has much room for growth as a group serving the Most High God, then I totally agree with you. If your point is that Messianic Judaism is bad and should be disbanded and all it’s members should join a good church (eat ham or whatever), then I would disagree with that.
Personally I really see little value in continuing to discuss the Law. It is a subject that is very near and dear to me, however it is one that I think takes our focus off of how we can better serve God and grow in our walks. I am going to celebrate Shabbat, Passover, etc. I am going to avoid animals spoken about in Leviticus 11
. I take that as a given and from there to me it is better to move on to how can I walk more upright in the Lord.
Another thing to note is the subtitle of this blog. It is “Working out my salvation with fear and trembling…and a blog!” for a reason, which is because I do not have all the answers. I am on a journey. I would guess that you would think that you were as well. It would take a great deal of arrogance to say that one has fully arrived, has put totally to death the old man, and has a full and 100% clear understanding of God and His principles for us. As such, for myself, there are things I am learning as I read Scripture. I come to new and better understanding all the time. I am continuing to grow and mature and thus things that I have written here in the past my views may have been refined by God over the months and years. I try to keep my readership (and remind myself as well) of when I change, but I think like most things that happen as we grow, the changes are gradual.
As such, part of unity is to continue to pray for each other. If you pray for me and I pray for you, I know we will reap greater benefits than writing off this group or that group as bad, lost or whatever. May you be blessed in your walk.
5 Tom Albrecht // Aug 16, 2007 at 3:02 pm
It seems like you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
You asked for my experience with MJism and I shared it with you.
The thing which Im wondering if you can answer for me, given the present state of MJism, how do you define what is extreme and what is acceptable?
I know how to tell a real Presbyterian from a fake. I compare what they believe and teach with the Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms. Historically, that has defined Presbyterianism. Most other denominations worth their salt have some objective secondary standard (secondary to the Bible) that defines what it means to be a member of that group.
But it appears to me that MJism does not have such an agreed-upon standard, and the result is a broad spectrum of beliefs and practices, some orthodox in the historic sense, and some heretical and quite offensive to true followers of Jesus Christ.
You seem to be saying that there is one set of correct answers, and of course with God there is, however is there one church that has everything 100% correct?
Its not so much that there is a set of 100% correct answers as much as how do you judge the wrong answer. And who gets to define the answer at all. If one MJ says that gentiles have no business trying to keep the old covenant laws specific to Israel (e.g., kosher), yet another MJ says that they should, then who is right? Or rather, who is the real MJ? If one MJ says that ethnic Jews who convert to Christ no longer need to circumcise their children, and another MJ insists they must or they are breaking the eternal law, who is the real MJ? If one MJ says that Jews and gentile are better off worshipping separately (like Presbyterians and Baptists), is that an acceptable form of MJism?
6 B Z // Aug 17, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Can I ask this Tom. One experience I had with Presbyterians indicates to me that there are differences even among that one denomination. We were going to have our kids go to a school at a local Presbyterian church, a very large church. The process included reading a certain book, listen to a series of tapes by the pastor about the philosophy of the school and church, watch a DVD and have an interview with the parent board. During the interview the one parent mentioned something about the church being a part of PCA, and that brought up something in my mind that I had heard about PCA, or at least I though it was that, or maybe it was PC-USA. I was sure so I brought up the subject, which got a pretty harsh comeback on the differences between the two. Now are not both groups Presbyterians? It seems one is very liberal and the other rather conservative. Do they both hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith? If so, it seems like there is a large difference of opinion, possibly larger than might be seen across the spectrum of Messianic Judaism. Maybe not, but possibly. Certainly the man I was speaking to was very adamant about expressing the differences between PC-USA and PCA. He did not want to be aligned in any way with the other group, even though they are both Presbyterians. If both use the name and only you can tell the difference then how is that different from me being able to tell a good Messianic Jewish congregation from a bad one?
If one MJ says that gentiles have no business trying to keep the old covenant laws specific to Israel (e.g., kosher), yet another MJ says that they should, then who is right?
God is the one who is right and he is the one who judges. I mentioned this before, but all I try and do is look at fruit, the same as I do with individuals. I am sure there are people you see at your church who show up, because it is what they do, but they show little fruit of their faith. While I would not judge them, I might pray for them to grow in their walk with God. My whole point is that we all need work, so let’s work together to grow, no matter what our cultural heritages are, Jew, Greek, Baptist, Presbyterian, whatever. Nobody is scoring a 100% on the test, but if we have answered the most important question correctly, then we have all passed and can work together on the rest of the answers.
What I am realizing is sitting around pointing out the flaws in others, which many churches, groups, blogs and Messianic Jews seem want to do, the only real reason I think they might be doing it, is because it gives them a sense of elitism to feel like “I got it down, the other guy now he needs work.” I think I especially need work, so why can’t we all work it out together? Now if one was to tell me that I need to do this that or the other thing in order to get to Heaven beyond my faith, then I would not want to work with that person, but believers seem to have that part down. It seems fighting over things that are not the things that gets one to heaven and rejecting other for these reasons is below the calling we have as believers.
I am sorry for the experiences that you have had with Messianic Jews. As I have mentioned already, we certainly need to grow in maturity. We are a small movement, a minority of a minority, so our resources are not great, however God is great and He has been blessing and maturing the movement. My Rabbi like to say, “God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called.” I think that is true of Messianic Judaism and we are being qualified each and every day, but I am glad for those that have been called and have answered the call. I hope you are praying for those in Messianic Judaism that you have met and have tried to indicate some sort of Spiritual superiority to you. It certainly sounds like those types of people need prayer, whether Messianic Jewish or a representative of another church.
Blessings to you Tom,
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