While unity of believers is a concept I speak of often, maybe some might think that I am a proponent of any group that uses the word Christian, Jesus, or other similar terms to be part of this unity. However that is not what I am proposing. Via the Free Republic today I found this article about the United Church of Canada and one particular church and the leader of that church. I find no place at all for unity with such a group and church as a whole.
The leader of this particular church, , Gretta Vosper is quoted in the article as saying,
“The central story of Christianity will fade away,” she explained. “The story about Jesus as the symbol of everything that Christianity is will fade away.”
If this is so, then what she is saying is that Jesus is not the Messiah and that forgiveness of sins via His death and resurrection is not actually available to anyone. What the point of a faith at all and exactly what it is in, I am unsure of, but it is not a faith in God, not a faith in Messiah and not a faith and confidence in salvation through Messiah. Vosper is looking forward to a time, “when the label Christian won’t even exist.” Personally I would rather see that come to be for her congregation and for the church it is a part of, for then the confusion it brings would come to an end, and those that believe in the Bible and what is told there can follow their faith, without being associated with those that want the Bible and God to yield to them and their fleshy worldview, rather than figure out how their own lives can be yield to God and the teaching of the Bible.
So there is absolutely no unity with this group in my view. Their thoughts are so far from the truth of Scripture, and more precisely they reject the salvation message of the Scripture and instead use the words of the Bible in a twisted, perverted way to move forward with their own agenda. This is and issue of the inside of the circle, and thus there can be no unity. I think there is a circle of core beliefs that all believers must agree upon and these deal with our salvation. Anything outside of that circle we can agree to disagree on and still have some form of unity, however the things inside the circle, if there is disagreement then there can be no unity, for we have not even a foundation to stand upon.
So once again, for clarity the unity I think is a worthy goal of all believers, and one that can bring great and wondrous things for the glory of God is different from a unity as described by Vosper:
“Here in the context of seeking out harmony with all things, the purest understanding of those values that enhance and sanctify life becomes the foremost spiritual practice,” she writes.
This is gobley-gook, feel good mumbo-jumbo and is as far out of accord with Scripture as anything I can think of, short of being openly hostile to God and Scripture. I actually think this is movement of the adversary, more than it is of any fellow believer in Messiah and Scripture. Truthfully, very sad.
B”H
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3 responses so far ↓
1 Richard B. // May 6, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Hi!
I’m a member and minister in the UCCan… one of the things I hope you can recognize is that Gretta is *one* minister, speaking out of *one* congregational context in the United Church of Canada.
Both members and ministers in the UCCan run the gamut of belief – from “traditional” or “orthodox” Christianity, right through to where Gretta is. Both of those extremes would be the “fringes” of our community of faith.
Most UCCan folks faith falls somewhere in the middle.
You might want to check out http://www.united-church.ca/beliefs/overview
Christ’s peace to you!
Richard
2 B Z // May 6, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I took a look at the page you mentioned. I saw nothing there about salvation, atonement, redemption. I found some of these topics on other pages (A Statement of Faith, Basis of Union (1925)). I am curious as to whether the topics discussed on the Overview of beliefs page being more contemporary, better reflect current views of the overall beliefs of most and if so where does the United Church generally stand on the subject of salvation. I see that the
and wonder how that comes into play in relation to the eternal security of those at the United Church and the other places listed?
At the very least the example of the congregation in the story is one that I can see no place for unity with as the core is far to different. There are much different priorities motivating action between a congregation like Vosper’s and others that hold forth to a salvation based upon the the things Vosper’s considers to be made up stories. I just cannot see the place for unity.
That does not mean, I wish ill will or anything else negative for the group. I pray that the Truths of Scripture be revealed and that the motivation to bend Scripture be healed. As for other groups in the United Church of Canada it would take further research, however looking through the site of St. Andrew’s Haney United Church, which if I am not mistaken would be the church you are currently a part of. On a page there called An Opening and Welcome it said:
This raises question in my mind as then what do we do with sin? It seems that this is a subject in which Scripture is very clear about. If we are speaking of sin then what about repentance? Is this part of the United Church of Canada at all?
Basically from my limited research I do not see much to indicate that we see anywhere even close to eye to eye on core Biblical principles such as salvation, the need for salvation and what salvation brings forth in the life of a believer. If it does not bring forth a changed life one that at the very least acknowledges the sin in our lives and strives to have that removed, then I am not sure if it is a faith like the one I am speaking about, and thus seems to be far from the unity of believers that I speak of.
Regardless, I wish blessings to you and may God speak clearly through His Word to an soft, open and yielding heart.
B”H
3 Tom Albrecht // May 7, 2008 at 8:56 am
“On all hands we hear cries for unity in this and unity in that; but in our mind the main need of this age is not compromise but conscientiousness, ‘First pure, then peaceable.’ It is easy to cry ‘A confederacy,’ but that union that is not based on the truth of God is rather a conspiracy than a communion. Charity by all means: but honesty also. Love of course, but love to God as well as love to men, and love of truth as well as love of union. It is exceedingly difficult in these times to preserve one’s fidelity before God and one’s fraternity among men. Should not the former be preferred to the latter if both cannot be maintained? We think so.” (Charles Haddon Spurgeon, 1887)
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