Y Not I

Reading through John 8 one comes upon an interesting section. It starts in John 8:31

Then said Yeshua to those Jews who believed in Him, “If ye continue in My Word, then are ye My disciples indeed.

My first thought is how cool it is to see it affirmed that there were indeed Messianic Jews even then. So often, it seems that it is a universally accepted truth that “the Jews” rejected Yeshua as Messiah. Certainly the leadership of the day, for the most part did. However it seems that many did believe in Him, and saw Him as the promised Messiah.

As one reads further in the Scripture, Yeshua continues on, “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)

These Jews who believed in Him responded with a most incredible statement:

They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? (John 8:33)

Think about this for a second, this Jewish group, who Scripture says believed in Yeshua, claimed to never have been in bondage to any man. Have these people never sat down to a Passover Seder? Did they not know that even that day they lived under the authority of Roman rule? I find this statement to be incredible ignorant. How about the times of exile? Biblical Jewish history is nothing if not full of times of the Jewish people, Abraham’s seed being in bondage to other men.

So while at first I was happy to see fellow Jews who believed in Yeshua, I am now immediately taken aback by the first statements that come out of the mouths of these believers. In the next verses yeshua pounds forth a few themes, they are in sin (John 8:34), they are seeking to kill Him (John 8:37), and finally that their “father” is the devil (John 8:44). Wow!

I think most people that recall these verses would assume it is a discussion between Yeshua and the Pharisees. Certainly that would make more sense. Usually when John referred to “the Jews” he was meaning the leadership groups. This encounter did end with what appears to be the same group looking to stone Yeshua (John 8:59). How did this that started as Yeshua speaking to those Jews who believed in Him, and ended with them wanting to stone Him, and who exactly are these Jews who believed in Him?

I do not have an exact answer as to who this group must be, but I guess a few thoughts have come to mind. I also search around to see what I can learn from others who have written about this section of Scripture. I found some interesting perspectives. This post list differing thoughts that include looking at the Greek words that are used. Some possibilities include that the group in John 8:30-32 is different than the one in the verses from John 8:33 and on. It also puts forth an idea that I have seen other places; that being that there is a difference between believing and putting faith in Yeshua. This article looks at the passage in this way. I think this is a good lesson and something that can indeed be taken from the reading here, but I am not sure if it is necessarily accurate to the exact words of the Scripture here. Certainly if the Jews of verses 30-32 are the same ones that are taking up stones in verse 59, then it seems like there must be truth to this position. But maybe the Jews of 30-32 are different from the Jews of the later verses and maybe these Jews are the Jews of the earlier section of chapter. In John 8:13 it was the Pharisees who were speaking with Him and looking to trap Him so they could accuse Him of something. Could this be the group that spoke up in John 8:33, and so could it be the Pharisees that the conversation continues on with up to the point of them grabbing stones? Maybe so.

A passage from the book “Disinheriting the Jews: Abraham in Early Christian Controversy” by Jeffrey S. Siker seems to lump John 8:31-47 together and separates it from the stone threatening Jews of verse 59. I guess by exploring this, it does seem that the group Yeshua was speaking to was a mixed group and at some point the conversation switched from the Jews who believed to another group of Jews. The hard part is figuring out where that switch occurs and I am not sure that there will ever be a true consensus on that on this side of Glory.

I guess to me in the end it does not matter that much. I have learned a lesson about having true faith and knowing that it is more than an acceptance of the truth. Certainly it is true that even Satan and his demons believe and accept the Messiah as true, yet they have no faith. I must in my walk put my faith in Yeshua, in the Father and in the power that resides in Him. I must do more than accept it as a truth, like one plus one equaling two, but must trust the truth to be something that provides the answers, the security and the strength that powers my every breath and certainly any good actions I take.

Certainly it is also true that Scripture tells us to believe in Him, even earlier in the same book of John, in probably the most famous passage of Scripture states:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And the same Greek word for believe is used in both John 3:16 and John 8:31. So a good lesson to know is that there were Jews who put this belief, one that provides everlasting life, and that remains true as well today. I guess those are two very good lessons to learn from a interesting and difficult section of Scripture

So I am curious as to the views of the readership. Where the Jews who believed in Yeshua in John 8:30-32 the same Jews who’s father was the devil or where these two different groups, even amoung the same group? Answer the poll and comment as well. I am interested to here the different perspectives.

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